Curse

Bryant Again · Feb 19, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fried Tech

i realize that but the lengths that this has been taken to seem...... a bit far. Thats just my 2 cents.

It's gone to such lengths because it's an incredibly peculiar and contradictory move made by ANet. Why create a skill that goes against a core foundation of Guild Wars? It'd be a bit more understandable (not acceptable) if they gave up entirely on balancing PvE, but they're still fixing and nerfing farms.

Fried Tech · Feb 19, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's gone to such lengths because it's an incredibly peculiar and contradictory move made by ANet. Why create a skill that goes against a core foundation of Guild Wars? It'd be a bit more understandable (not acceptable) if they gave up entirely on balancing PvE, but they're still fixing and nerfing farms.

They are still nerfing and fixing farms that make a large impact on the game economy. UB does nothing to ingame economics. You could argue that there is a large influx of people farming DOA, FOW, or UW thanks to UB but I doubt that it has really had an effect on prices.

But, I'm sure that I am just restating what has been posted before.

Abnaxus · Feb 19, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

"You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate. Whether battling horrific monsters or competing at the highest levels of tournament player, it will always be your skill that earns you victory or defeat."

So they wrote the truth on the box, they didn't say "your skills" or "your skillbar", they used singular because it's referred to one skill, and this skill is ... Ursan Blessing!

Abedeus · Feb 19, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Well, duh. Skill is not countable in that sentence.

Btw - Three days ago, rubies were 4,1k. Now they're 3,9k. I think I'll finally buy vabbian ;d

Bryant Again · Feb 19, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fried Tech

They are still nerfing and fixing farms that make a large impact on the game economy. UB does nothing to ingame economics. You could argue that there is a large influx of people farming DOA, FOW, or UW thanks to UB but I doubt that it has really had an effect on prices.

Things take time, and I would actually be pretty concerned about the huge influx of PUGs now taking place in DoA and being successful.

But that's not my concern, as I've posted numerous times before.

Fire Childe · Feb 19, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

I pugged Imperial Sanctum a few weeks ago and a warrior with Ursan Blessing joined. Someone asked if he could bring Wild Blow to end Shiro's Battle Scars. Ursan boy refused and after some time trying to find alternatives that other group members had, he said he was going to leave if we continued to wait so long. Group leader smashes go butan. We lose horribly on a 30 second mission with the right build.

That guy was probably the dumbest warrior I've ever seen.

Sure you can use Ursan Blessing if you want - nobody can or will stop you from doing that. However, you can appreciate how others may derive some small degree of amusement at the expense of the drooling chimp that attains success in Guild Wars by smashing a couple of buttons.

That popular evolutionary image of an ape walking, standing upright and turning gradually into primitive man really comes to mind. Except if you carry it on a little bit more, primitive man turns gradually into fat drooling Guild Wars playing imbecile smashing URSAN BLESSING 4 THA WINNAR.

Then the human race will collectively wonder 'where did we go wrong?'

Fried Tech · Feb 20, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Childe

I pugged Imperial Sanctum a few weeks ago and a warrior with Ursan Blessing joined. Someone asked if he could bring Wild Blow to end Shiro's Battle Scars. Ursan boy refused and after some time trying to find alternatives that other group members had, he said he was going to leave if we continued to wait so long. Group leader smashes go butan. We lose horribly on a 30 second mission with the right build.

That guy was probably the dumbest warrior I've ever seen.

Sure you can use Ursan Blessing if you want - nobody can or will stop you from doing that. However, you can appreciate how others may derive some small degree of amusement at the expense of the drooling chimp that attains success in Guild Wars by smashing a couple of buttons.

That popular evolutionary image of an ape walking, standing upright and turning gradually into primitive man really comes to mind. Except if you carry it on a little bit more, primitive man turns gradually into fat drooling Guild Wars playing imbecile smashing URSAN BLESSING 4 THA WINNAR.

Then the human race will collectively wonder 'where did we go wrong?'

Wait a minute. So your saying that you did something with a PUG, and the guy who brought ursan sucked!? I thought UB was the super uber, stand against all and kill everything in your way super build. The skill so imba the bar only needs 5 skills, not 8. The PUG saver!

Sounds like PUGs suck just as bad as before. With or without UB.

Fire Childe · Feb 20, 2008, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Nah, I'm saying he used Ursan Blessing and didn't know how to play anything else. Ursan boy got kicked after the loss, I added Koss and locked target onto Shiro, then spammed wild blow. Team was otherwise the same. Shiro goes down in about a minute.

Ursan is indeed 'uber'. However, take it off the skillbar of a pubbie that cant really use anything else and you are left with...well not very much. The fact the entire team was building against shiro you have to agree it was somewhat annoying that 1 guy was unwilling to take 1 skill that could and did make a difference.

I was sort of astonished that someone so stupid had managed to get so far into the game.

Avarre · Feb 20, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fried Tech

Wait a minute. So your saying that you did something with a PUG, and the guy who brought ursan sucked!? I thought UB was the super uber, stand against all and kill everything in your way super build. The skill so imba the bar only needs 5 skills, not 8. The PUG saver!

Sounds like PUGs suck just as bad as before. With or without UB.

The players who ran D/Mos played terribly (I'm referring to the specific guild). They lost sometimes. That didn't make the build not ridiculous.

'You can still lose' is not an acceptable argument for balance any more than 'it works in RA'.

Fried Tech · Feb 20, 2008, 01:37 PM // 13:37

and "I hate this, have never used it, nor will I ever use it. It should be removed" IS an acceptable argument? Your like the blind leading the drunk.

Woop Shotty · Feb 20, 2008, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Oh well. Now there's a reason to pick a human over a hero.

Avarre · Feb 20, 2008, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fried Tech

and "I hate this, have never used it, nor will I ever use it. It should be removed" IS an acceptable argument? Your like the blind leading the drunk.

I've never used that argument. You'll see this if you read the thread you perpetuate with such logic.

Bryant Again · Feb 20, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fried Tech

and "I hate this, have never used it, nor will I ever use it. It should be removed" IS an acceptable argument?

I don't think anyone has used that here for a basis of argument.

Fried Tech · Feb 20, 2008, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I don't think anyone has used that here for a basis of argument.

I looked back through the thread. Your right.

I apolagize. Must have been remembering one of the previous UB threads.

the_jos · Feb 20, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

I'm going to throw in some random quotes:

Quote:

A normal player coming to DoA, excited about finally being able to see it, will be pretty turned off by the fact that he's turned down by or unable to join an Ursan group because he doesn't have one skill. Now a more dedicated player probably would want to buy GW:EN, but we're referring to the average consumer here.

First character to finish NF: Ranger. Role for ranger in DoA PUGS: none
Second character: Monk: Role for Monk in DoA PUGS: required
Third character: Mesmer: Role for Mesmer in DoA PUGS: none
Nothing changed only now people will look at one skill instead of a few professions.

Quote:

Read the back of the Guild Wars Prophecies casing.
"Prove your worth in a world where SKILL decides VICTORY"

Except when you are a mesmer, ranger or assassin looking for an (original) DoA PUG.
The statment isn't even true for PvP anymore where gimmic builds enable lesser skilled players to win from more skilled players.

Quote:

Nope, dying with UB doesn't mean 1-2-3 buttonmashing is skill.
That means you're monks failed.

Or the group had bad aggro (more likely) which is ursan fault.

Quote:

It seems that most PuGs only GET GW:EN for Ursan...

Ok, this is a good introduction to my opinion about UB.
Once, a long, long time ago people started playing Guild Wars for fun.
They did so and A-net had only one 'problem'. Players were sticking in PvE more then expected. So they made some new content for those players.
In the next release of Guild Wars A-net tried to introduce players to PvP again. They called it Jade Quarry, Aspenwood and Alliance Battle. PvP in a PvE environment. It did not work out very well. So the next chapter was more even about PvE.

But on the PvE side things changed.
People were playing less and less for fun and more and more for prestige.
And the only way to get prestige is with lot of luck or hard work (also called grind). Obsi armor, titles. It's all about grind. Or that one lucky drop ofc.
And because some of that grind (specially the elite areas) took a lot of time, people wanted to do that as fail-safe as possible, specially when playing with random people (also called PUG). Hence the cookie-cutter builds like Tank/Nuker/Healer.
Build to make as much gold as possible in the least amount of time.
Sure, some builds are better, but those require more practice and that means initial less gold/hour because of more failures.

We already know certain professions had a hard time getting access to those teams because they do not fit into them. There is, for example, a huge thread about the role of the mesmer in PvE.

The question now is: when UB gets a nerf, would the average PUG suddenly accept Mesmers, Assassins or Rangers in their DoA teams?
Hell no, they will get back to their Tank/Nuker/Healer build. Because that works and unless someone proves otherwise they will keep doing that.

Furtermore, the topic of the OP surgests it's about Vanquishing with PUGs.
Vanquishing never had a large PUG base, most people did that with guild teams, friends or H&H because that's much safer.
Vanquishing is not about fun for most, a lot of people do it mainly for the titles.

Vanquishing with Ursan/monk only team? I still have to see the first call in Guild or Alliance chat for that. While having a huge focus on HM.
Seems UB is not regarded as insanely overpowered compared to an organised balanced team for vanquishing or HM missions/dungeons.

The argument that UB is imbalanced is partly true.
It's about as imbalanced as the average Elite Area where A-net threw in environmental effects and insane numbers of high level foes with limited skillbars to make them 'harder'.
The only thing UB does is making the player a HM foe. With 4 'press button when recharged' skills, buffed armor and health.

Now we have a second problem.
Because some players thought HM was too hard, A-net invented nice consumables.
Good stuff if you are the average player that needed them, very overpowered when you are a player that was already doing fine in HM without them.

Now we have that one skill called UB which turns players into dumb HM-like foes and we add those consumables to buff them even more.
Sure that's overpowered, but it's the combination and not so much the skill alone.

However, having said all this I have to admit I still don't know if UB or the combination with consumables should be changed or not.
It creates discrimination but that was already present in the game.
You can't show Bambi/Wolfie/Tigger: fail. You are not an SF ele, fail. You want to tank and don't have Obsi Flesh: fail. You play a mesmer or assassin: fail.

The thing I can't say if it takes the fun away from the game.
Not the fun of having prestige stuff others don't have but the fun of playing the game itself.
Part of me says yes, because it disables people without UB to gain access to certain elite areas (fast).
Part of me says no, because it enables people playing certain professions to actually enter and finish those areas without relying on guild teams or H&H.
And part of me says no because it enables people to enjoy playing with others again, something H&H combined with 3 continents and one expantion seemed to have killed a long time ago except for some 'farming areas'.

Grasping Darkness · Feb 20, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

i agree that ursan blessing is super powerful. i also think that if people have fun doing ursan groups then more power to them. also its pve which affects the community to a lesser degree, taking into concideration that bots and gold sellers ruin any public achievement credibility. gl hf

Bryant Again · Feb 20, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

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